Discussion:
Pick a coach to fire
(too old to reply)
Dan Iwerks
2005-01-03 19:39:57 UTC
Permalink
OK, season's done (well, for us, at least). Play virtual GM. Pick one
coach in the NFL to get rid of.

My choice:

Mike Martz. How does this man have a head coaching job? Heck of an
offensive coordinator. Godawful head coach. If ever anyone needed
somebody above them with veto power for dumb decisions, it's Martz. Add
to that his blaming of the Rams' suckiness a few weeks ago on Chris
Chandler and Martz needs to get hit by a bus.
--
*****************************************************************
Dan Iwerks thinks that the beer you're drinking probably sucks.
The fundamental problem with Solipsism is it makes me
responsible for the fact that you're a complete idiot.
*****************************************************************
james
2005-01-04 04:24:59 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 19:39:57 -0000, Dan Iwerks
Post by Dan Iwerks
OK, season's done (well, for us, at least). Play virtual GM. Pick one
coach in the NFL to get rid of.
Mike Martz. How does this man have a head coaching job? Heck of an
offensive coordinator. Godawful head coach. If ever anyone needed
somebody above them with veto power for dumb decisions, it's Martz. Add
to that his blaming of the Rams' suckiness a few weeks ago on Chris
Chandler and Martz needs to get hit by a bus.
*****

Haslett, but Martz is up there. He may keep his job if he gets far
into the playoffs. I think Haslett is gone simply can't win. When was
the last time the Saints had a winning season? 2000?

james
Charles Oppermann
2005-01-04 05:02:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by james
Haslett, but Martz is up there. He may keep his job if he gets far
into the playoffs. I think Haslett is gone simply can't win. When was
the last time the Saints had a winning season? 2000?
Well if Haslett goes, then Gruden should as well. Haslett was hired for the
2000 season...

Saints W-L record starting in 2000: 10-6* (0-1), 7-9, 9-7, 8-8, 8-8.
42 wins, 38 losses.

Bucs W-L record starting in 2000: 10-6 (0-1), 9-7 (0-1), 12-4* (3-0), 7-9,
5-11.
43 wins, 37 losses.

Obviously we've been more playoff games, and won the Super Bowl, but over
the same span, each team has won their division once (*).

It could be equally argued that we're only slightly better than the Saints
(who seem to beat us more often then we beat them.)
james
2005-01-04 14:53:31 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 21:02:18 -0800, "Charles Oppermann"
Post by Charles Oppermann
Post by james
Haslett, but Martz is up there. He may keep his job if he gets far
into the playoffs. I think Haslett is gone simply can't win. When was
the last time the Saints had a winning season? 2000?
Well if Haslett goes, then Gruden should as well. Haslett was hired for the
2000 season...
Saints W-L record starting in 2000: 10-6* (0-1), 7-9, 9-7, 8-8, 8-8.
42 wins, 38 losses.
Bucs W-L record starting in 2000: 10-6 (0-1), 9-7 (0-1), 12-4* (3-0), 7-9,
5-11.
43 wins, 37 losses.
Obviously we've been more playoff games, and won the Super Bowl, but over
the same span, each team has won their division once (*).
It could be equally argued that we're only slightly better than the Saints
(who seem to beat us more often then we beat them.)
^^^^^^^^
You also have to remember that 2000 and 2001 seasons were coached by
Dungy and not Gruden. Still Gruden has about 2 yrs to turn things
around and become playoff bound or the same talk will be about him
after the 2006 season.

One of problems that have plagued the Saints is that they generally
start off like a house on fire and end up loosing about 4 of their
last six games. Exception was this yr. They did end on a 4 game
winning streak. Beating Carolina may have saved Haslett's job for one
more yr.

I have said it here before if Gruden has another 5 -11 season in 2005
and say 7 - 9 in 2006, he will be gone also. The honeymoon is over now
from the SB and now it is time for Gruden to earn his pay or he is but
just a entry in the Bucs history file!!!!

james
buster
2005-01-04 18:16:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by james
I have said it here before if Gruden has another 5 -11 season in 2005
and say 7 - 9 in 2006, he will be gone also. The honeymoon is over now
from the SB and now it is time for Gruden to earn his pay or he is but
just a entry in the Bucs history file!!!!
james
He wont be here in 2006
Dan Iwerks
2005-01-04 18:45:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by buster
Post by james
I have said it here before if Gruden has another 5 -11 season in 2005
and say 7 - 9 in 2006, he will be gone also. The honeymoon is over now
from the SB and now it is time for Gruden to earn his pay or he is but
just a entry in the Bucs history file!!!!
james
He wont be here in 2006
I think he'll be safe through 2006. Hopefully next year the team will
bite the bullet and make it salary cap-hell year and clear things out for
a run in 2006. Get rid of some of the dead weight and get younger
players.
--
*****************************************************************
Dan Iwerks thinks that the beer you're drinking probably sucks.
The fundamental problem with Solipsism is it makes me
responsible for the fact that you're a complete idiot.
*****************************************************************
g b
2005-01-05 03:56:10 UTC
Permalink
Not a head coach -- But I just get a feeling from some of his remarks
that Gruden is about to replace some of his assistant coaches. Nothing
definite he said just a few remarks that sounded kind of suggestive.
I think it is time that OL line coach gets replaced.
Ron Gibson
2005-01-05 05:13:10 UTC
Permalink
Not a head coach -- But I just get a feeling from some of his remarks that
Gruden is about to replace some of his assistant coaches. Nothing definite
he said just a few remarks that sounded kind of suggestive. I think it is
time that OL line coach gets replaced.
Special Teams and DB coaches are supposed to be going.
Charles Franklin
2005-01-05 05:41:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by g b
Not a head coach -- But I just get a feeling from some of his remarks
that Gruden is about to replace some of his assistant coaches. Nothing
definite he said just a few remarks that sounded kind of suggestive.
I think it is time that OL line coach gets replaced.
Yep, dumping Muir is a good start.
Charles Oppermann
2005-01-05 18:07:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by g b
Not a head coach -- But I just get a feeling from some of his remarks
that Gruden is about to replace some of his assistant coaches. Nothing
definite he said just a few remarks that sounded kind of suggestive.
I think it is time that OL line coach gets replaced.
The OL line coach is Bill Muir, who also holds the mostly decorative title
of Offensive Coordinator. Muir is supposed to be a genius with offensive
lineman who was with Bill Parcells for years. It's believed that Muir was
hired in anticipation of getting Parcells. Thus, Gruden may feel no loyalty
to him.

Obviously the OL is not good. Just like the Bucs are known for good
defense, they are also known for poor offensive lines. I doubt it's the
coaching that's the problem, but rather the lack of good talent available at
the position. Rich McKay certainly didn't do a good job getting personnel
for the position, and I think the pre-Gruden personnel department was much
better than it is now.
james
2005-01-07 02:33:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by buster
He wont be here in 2006
*******

I thnik he has enough security to be here through the 2006 season.
After that it will be: "What have you done for me lately?"

james

Kevin Brill
2005-01-05 17:22:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by james
On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 19:39:57 -0000, Dan Iwerks
Post by Dan Iwerks
OK, season's done (well, for us, at least). Play virtual GM. Pick
one coach in the NFL to get rid of.
Mike Martz. How does this man have a head coaching job? Heck of an
offensive coordinator. Godawful head coach. If ever anyone needed
somebody above them with veto power for dumb decisions, it's Martz.
Add to that his blaming of the Rams' suckiness a few weeks ago on
Chris Chandler and Martz needs to get hit by a bus.
*****
Haslett, but Martz is up there. He may keep his job if he gets far
into the playoffs. I think Haslett is gone simply can't win. When was
the last time the Saints had a winning season? 2000?
james
Martz is one guy that I can't believe is still around...he's got a
serious case of Barry Switzer (winning with someone else's team and then
doing nothing but look silly afterwards). Of course, one could make the
argument that Gruden's got the same bug (and no, I don't want to start
that thread back up...).

What gets me is why Dennis Erickson has, and keeps getting jobs, and how
much longer can Holgrem have?

-Kevin
--
"This Space for Rent"
Charles Oppermann
2005-01-05 18:22:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevin Brill
Martz is one guy that I can't believe is still around...he's got a
serious case of Barry Switzer (winning with someone else's team and then
doing nothing but look silly afterwards). Of course, one could make the
argument that Gruden's got the same bug (and no, I don't want to start
that thread back up...).
Well, it's been said that winning the Super Bowl gives coaches three years
minimum.
Post by Kevin Brill
What gets me is why Dennis Erickson has, and keeps getting jobs, and how
much longer can Holgrem have?
Erickson is just one of those coaches who does really well in college
(Miami, Oregon) and lousy in the NFL (Seahawks, 49'ers). Others include
Butch Davis, Steve Spurrier, and Pete Carroll - who was miserable with the
Jets and Patriots, but is racking up titles at SoCal.

Being in Seattle, it's interesting to compare the Bucs and Seahawks.
Holmgren is thought of as a great coach, but two years ago, it was seriously
discussed that it wasn't working out as Grand Pooba of the entire franchise.
He gave up the GM title and has moderate success since. Expectations were
high this year, but lousy defense and injuries hurt badly.

Holmgren is as good - if not better - a offensive coach as Gruden, which
stands to reason given that Gruden learned under Holmgren at Green Bay and
SF. However, Holmgren doesn't have Monte Kiffen and the Tampa Two defense.
He does have Ray Rhodes though, and the defense is improving, but not
quickly enough and without playmakers.

It's amazing to watch the Bucs play the early game (10am here) and then the
Seahawks in the late game and compare the defenses. The Bucs are fast and
tackle really well. Then again, on offense, the Seahawks can stretch a
defensive like I haven't seen the Bucs do - ever.

The rumor is that if Holmgren lays a egg on Saturday and loses badly, he'll
be fired, or quit to pursue the 49'ers. I think the 49'ers would love to
have Holmgren back, at the very least reminding the season ticket holders of
the days when Holmgren coached Joe Montana under Bill Walsh.

Personally, I think Holmgren should stick around in Seattle. Currently, the
Seahawks are a well run franchise, with an owner who is hands off, but deep
pockets - Paul Allen. Regards of what John York says, I think he's ruined
the 49'ers and Holmgren would be foolish to try to rebuild there.
Dan Iwerks
2005-01-05 18:45:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Charles Oppermann
Post by Kevin Brill
Martz is one guy that I can't believe is still around...he's got a
serious case of Barry Switzer (winning with someone else's team and
then doing nothing but look silly afterwards). Of course, one could
make the argument that Gruden's got the same bug (and no, I don't
want to start that thread back up...).
Well, it's been said that winning the Super Bowl gives coaches three
years minimum.
Post by Kevin Brill
What gets me is why Dennis Erickson has, and keeps getting jobs, and
how much longer can Holgrem have?
Erickson is just one of those coaches who does really well in college
(Miami, Oregon) and lousy in the NFL (Seahawks, 49'ers). Others
include Butch Davis, Steve Spurrier, and Pete Carroll - who was
miserable with the Jets and Patriots, but is racking up titles at
SoCal.
Well, you certainly can't blame Erickson for the 49ers' problems. That
team's been run into the ground by an idiotic owner and if Jesus himself
strapped on a headset he still couldn't coach that crappy team to a .500
season. As for Seattle, he got fired after the Seahawks only missed the
playoffs due to a crappy call by refs pre-instant replay, IIRC. Vinny
Testaverde was down at the 1 but continued to lunge forward into the end
zone, and the ref said he scored. Jets won the game, Seahawks missed the
playoffs, and Erickson lost his job. If not for one bad call, he'd
probably still have been coach and actually had a chance with a
reasonably decent team.
--
*****************************************************************
Dan Iwerks thinks that the beer you're drinking probably sucks.
The fundamental problem with Solipsism is it makes me
responsible for the fact that you're a complete idiot.
*****************************************************************
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